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At the end of the day, also rans as usual. If you want to celebrate finishing 4th that's up to you. With the players they have available a decent manager would give England a much better chance.

subsub wrote:

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:06 am

subsub wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:53 am Nobody gave England a cat in hell's chance at the 2018 World Cup.

And they were right, they came 4th

They went way further than everyone expected. But you already knew that.

They lost 3 out of 7 games.
They didn’t beat anyone that was decent.

Lauding Southgate on getting to a semi final is the reason we’ve never progressed.

An utter failure of a manager.

JudgeTedd wrote:

henrycrs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:46 am Why do we have to accept mediocrity?

Southgate is just an FA political puppet (who had an appalling managerial CV), tactically inept and blinkered.

Southgate alone cost us the Euros. Never forget that.

He’s adventurous as the missionary position, and a massive cunt to boot.

Who would you have instead?

Southgate was the logical choice. In charge of the u-21 team. As they progressed so did he. The next person to take over should really be Lee Carsley. But because he isn’t the BIG name, fans would be in uproar.

My garden gnome would have more tactical nous.

The fact that people defend Southgate is laughable. An utter fraud.

Lee Carsely??? FFS. He won’t get it as under 21s football is a different game to elite level football - he doesn’t have the experience, the size of his name isn’t relevant.

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:14 am At the end of the day, also rans as usual. If you want to celebrate finishing 4th that's up to you

Righto.

Acceptance of failure, and more so to try and make it sound like a great performance, is why we get what we deserve, nothing.

henrycrs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:31 am

JudgeTedd wrote:

henrycrs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:46 am Why do we have to accept mediocrity?

Southgate is just an FA political puppet (who had an appalling managerial CV), tactically inept and blinkered.

Southgate alone cost us the Euros. Never forget that.

He’s adventurous as the missionary position, and a massive cunt to boot.

Who would you have instead?

Southgate was the logical choice. In charge of the u-21 team. As they progressed so did he. The next person to take over should really be Lee Carsley. But because he isn’t the BIG name, fans would be in uproar.

My garden gnome would have more tactical nous.

The fact that people defend Southgate is laughable. An utter fraud.

Lee Carsely??? FFS. He won’t get it as under 21s football is a different game to elite level football - he doesn’t have the experience, the size of his name isn’t relevant.

So who would you have instead of Southgate?

Carsley is the obvious choice as he’d know the players who are coming through. Just like the current bloke in charge.

With the way people are carrying on, anyone would be easily forgiven if they thought England were languishing in their group and had been on the receiving end of another tonking last night.

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:38 am Acceptance of failure, and more so to try and make it sound like a great performance, is why we get what we deserve, nothing.

England have won about as much as Birmingham City have. You wouldn’t expect this sort of reaction if they drew would you?

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:38 am Acceptance of failure, and more so to try and make it sound like a great performance, is why we get what we deserve, nothing.

So, unless England win every single game they play and win every single tournament, they're an embarrassment and a failure?
I think you need a big ol' dose of reality.

subsub wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:50 am

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:38 am Acceptance of failure, and more so to try and make it sound like a great performance, is why we get what we deserve, nothing.

So, unless England win every single game they play and win every single tournament, they're an embarrassment and a failure?
I think you need a big ol' dose of reality.

Don’t do reality

subsub wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:50 am

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:38 am Acceptance of failure, and more so to try and make it sound like a great performance, is why we get what we deserve, nothing.

So, unless England win every single game they play and win every single tournament, they're an embarrassment and a failure?
I think you need a big ol' dose of reality.

Your words not mine and a very strange interpretation of my post. But what's new.

JudgeTedd wrote:

henrycrs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:31 am

JudgeTedd wrote:

henrycrs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:46 am Why do we have to accept mediocrity?

Southgate is just an FA political puppet (who had an appalling managerial CV), tactically inept and blinkered.

Southgate alone cost us the Euros. Never forget that.

He’s adventurous as the missionary position, and a massive cunt to boot.

Who would you have instead?

Southgate was the logical choice. In charge of the u-21 team. As they progressed so did he. The next person to take over should really be Lee Carsley. But because he isn’t the BIG name, fans would be in uproar.

My garden gnome would have more tactical nous.

The fact that people defend Southgate is laughable. An utter fraud.

Lee Carsely??? FFS. He won’t get it as under 21s football is a different game to elite level football - he doesn’t have the experience, the size of his name isn’t relevant.

So who would you have instead of Southgate?

Carsley is the obvious choice as he’d know the players who are coming through. Just like the current bloke in charge.

With the way people are carrying on, anyone would be easily forgiven if they thought England were languishing in their group and had been on the receiving end of another tonking last night.

The bloke in charge should never have been appointed.

Anyone who would play 2 defensive midfielders against the likes of San Marino shouldn’t ever manage another game.

Let’s be honest, a Sunday league manager would probably have enough about them to get out of the qualifying groups with the talent we have.

Who would I have? Anyone that actually wants to
Win games of football.

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:07 pm

subsub wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:50 am

Zambo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:38 am Acceptance of failure, and more so to try and make it sound like a great performance, is why we get what we deserve, nothing.

So, unless England win every single game they play and win every single tournament, they're an embarrassment and a failure?
I think you need a big ol' dose of reality.

Your words not mine and a very strange interpretation of my post. But what's new.

No, that's pretty much what you said.
I think England overperformed at the 2018 World Cup to reach the semis. But you describe it as "failure". Therefore, unless we win every tournament we enter, it's a bad outcome.
I think that's unrealistic.

You've accepted finishing 4th as comparitive success. It's of course better than finishing 5th, but to say England over performed and were still 4th, that is acceptance of failure.

Sums up England yesterday. Failure.

'The spoils were shared while Ukraine's players and fans revelled in this unique atmosphere, with dull England - too many passes and not enough chances - doing nothing to spoil the mood'.

England are generally a quarter final team. No England manager has a better record over consecutive tournaments than Southgate. Even the win in 1966 seems more of a fluke years on as we've rarely threatened to do it again until this period under Southgate.

So we should be happy that England are punching above their weight at the moment. They would need to get really lucky again to win a tournament and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

The players coming in are not good enough and after Southgate we will go back to struggling again. We've come to the end of a cycle.